Lotus under scrutiny for car design
November 5, 2009 by SJ Skid
Filed under Prime & Option, SJ Skid
The new Lotus team, headed by been-around-the-block Mike Gasgoyne, finds itself under the microscope this week because the initial designs of its car resemble that other another team.
And that’s a big no-no, although one that Lotus only will be officially bound by once it signs the Concorde Agreement.
But I think we all will agree that’s not the big news here. The big news: the team that Lotus is accused of parroting.
Red Bull? No.
Brawn GP? After all, it just won both championships. Not it.
McLaren? Try again.
OK… Ferrari? I mean, the car was kind of hopeless there at the end, but surely it has a solid base to begin with, right? No.
The Lotus wind-tunnel design looks, apparently, an awful lot like Force India’s car.
I know, I know, this might be a bigger sign of Lotus’ unlikelihood of making the grid than USF1′s unpainted HQ.
As a bit of a Force India fan, even I wouldn’t look to those cars for my model. Of course, Gasgoyne is an old Force India employee, so you can see where the issue starts.
Here’s a bit more from Autosport:
Force India is keeping a close eye on the progress of the Lotus Formula 1 team’s 2010 design, with team sources saying it is concerned about the similarities between its old car and the new Lotus.
Lotus recently published photographs of the wind-tunnel model that will form the basis of its new car. At the time, there was discussion about how similar it looked to the Force India – especially because Force India’s former Aerolab wind tunnel and technical chief Mike Gascoyne are now working together on the Lotus project.
Sources suggest that there were details on the wind tunnel model that have become a cause for alarm for Force India’s senior management. These relate to the design of the front wing assembly, which Force India believes is virtually identical to that which it started last season.
Furthermore, the team is concerned by the fact that the Lotus was fitted with wind-tunnel tyres that featured hand-writing from Force India staff – meaning they could only have come from the Silverstone-based team.
[snip]
“Obviously our wind-tunnel model was designed for us by Fondtech in Italy,” Gascoyne told AUTOSPORT.
“It is based around a 2010 chassis, because there is a big fuel volume in it, it has a Cosworth engine, an Xtrac gearbox, our suspension, and other stuff designed by us. The Fondmetal guys put some generic bodywork on [for the tests].
“Some of the staff had been working on different projects. And whereas you cannot copy anything or take anyone else’s IP, you can use your expertise – and you will base that on what you know and what directions you know have been happening. That is what has happened.”
Gasgyone’s argument is that Lotus is working with designers who know how the cars are put together, and so they put together a car that looks like the cars on the grid.
Sounds a bit fishy, though, given the connections to Force India. Plus, Gasgoyne drops this whopper: “Gascoyne added that because Lotus sub-contracts its design work to Fondtech, then any complaints Force India has should be directed to it – not Lotus.”
That sounds like he knows they’ve done something wrong to me — and not just picking the wrong car to mirror.
Oh, and there’s that whole “signed tires” issue. Sounds like the case is coming together pretty solidly.
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I can’t believe you’re falling for that nonsense. Force India is saying that Lotus’s new car looks like their car that was designed by the same guy. Well, duh! Did anyone expect Adrian Newey and Ross Brawn to forget everything they ever did at their previous teams? Malya is a whiner and Gascoyne has designed championship winning cars, and is arguably responsible for getting Force India to where they are today. Sour grapes.
That I’m falling for it? I don’t think I am — just passing on the news.
The thing I can’t reconcile is why Lotus would base anything on Force India! I think that’s their best defense: If we were going to copy a car, do you think we’d copy Force India?! :)
Although Force India showed a lot of improvement this time, I don`t think it was due to Gascoyne. He was a part of the team but for the 2008 developent work mainly. But i don`t think they have copied the design of the Force India cars, they might be similar, but so are they somewhat similar to toyota cars to some extent
True enough, you sourced the story, but implying there is something fishy going on suggests that you buy into it. I apologize for making an assumption there, but FI trying to drum up interest in a story based on a photo of a design mock-up, well it seems like a stretch to me. Let’s see what the final cars look like, but I would say in Gascoyne’s defense, no one would know better than he which aspects of his previous work was worth keeping and what needed to be binned.
Gotcha. I did say it was fishy, you’re right. I do think Gasgoyne “passing the buck” is a bit strange if there isn’t anything there.
We’ll see. Given our other story about Lotus, maybe it and Force India really will be battling next year!
I love you Jordan/Minardi fans, even if it is harder to love their current incarnations……
There is an element to the fact that the regulations are fairly limiting on what can be done so you could say that they all are very similar in look. Also, Gascoyne did design their last car but did he take a disc full of FI info with him ala Renault? :) I jest!
You raise a good point. I confess to being an unabashed Gascoyne admirer, but I truly respect every engineer/designer in F1. I think Gordon Murray is a genius, and I tip my hat to the responsibility that the men and women who put together the cars for the stars have. Still, in this day and age, it is a lot harder today for anyone to come up with the kinds of “solutions” that Murray used to shake out of his brainy cap. No wonder, really, that the cars begin to look like not too distant relatives.
Plus, as I have said before, no designer leaves his brain, skills and memory at the old job. A guy like Gascoyne has had millions of dollars a year to “experiment” with and he has ticked a few boxes there. As cynical as I am about the “New Lotus” team, I am looking forward to see what their budget and skills will produce. They seem to be taking it quite seriously and don’t mind actually showing people that they are in the F1 business, unlike some of the other minnow teams who don’t need to be mentioned.
Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
If these teams that have no history from which to build a car need data – why not reconstruct other constructors vehicles and test them in the wind tunnel to try to glean what you can from others before you are bound by the policy that would evidently make it wrong to do so? Well, it is a quick way to try to combine a bunch of the great lessons that other teams have learned from … but isn’t it also wrong, concorde agreement in effect or not?
I don’t know what the concorde agreement’s restrictions are but honestly, how ridiculous if you can’t copy visible designs aspects.
F1 is based on copying other teams, uhhhhhh Red Bull’s big ugly sharkfin! Uhhhhhh double diffusers! flippy bunny ears and other horney bits on the nose!!! What are they gonna do, introduce patents?
If they had some bloody freedom to design something bloody different from each other they probably bloody well would. uhhhh no they would probably still copy wouldn’t they.